In a recent episode of our podcast, Talking China Business, Ting Zhang FRSA, founder & CEO at Crayfish.io spoke with Professor Kerry Brown, Director at Lau China Institute at King’s College London about UK-China relations, past, present and future. The author of “The Great Reversal: Britain, China, and the 400-Year Contest for Power”, one of the latest in his 200+ books, Brown talked about its relevance to the current state of UK-China relations and his observation from an academic viewpoint. The conversation provided valuable insights into this complex relationship’s historical underpinnings, present challenges, and future opportunities.
In Ting Zhang’s words:
“We’re here today to discuss the fascinating and complex relationship between Western, particularly British and European, businesses and China. Crayfish.io plays an important role in helping British and European companies navigate the Chinese market. Some of our partners are large, publicly traded UK companies, and we’re keen to explore those connections.”
The guest, Professor Kerry Brown, whom Ting has been working alongside in the UK-China relations field for nearly 20 years, is the author of almost 20 books on China, and a frequent expert commentator on various media platforms about contemporary China.
Key takeaways:
Historical Perspectives, Current Relevance, Education
Host Ting Zhang found Professor Kerry Brown’s book very helpful, particularly its comprehensive coverage of historical interactions, including the less-known pre-Macartney Mission period, and its systematic approach to understanding the British efforts to trade with China.
The book offers a comprehensive exploration of the 400-year interaction between Britain and China, beginning in the late 16th century. The narrative traces pivotal moments, including the East India Company’s trade dominance, the impact of tea and opium, the Anglo-Chinese wars, and the eventual decline of British imperial influence in the 20th century. A key takeaway is the collaborative nature of this relationship, marked by mutual exchange and learning.
Fast forwarding to today, Ting Zhang pointed out the current challenges facing the two countries, from the government level as well as in the education and business side. Brown underscored the need for a pragmatic approach to UK-China relations, focusing on mutual economic benefits. He highlighted China’s rapid advancements in technology and infrastructure as opportunities for collaboration. Additionally, he stressed the importance of clear and consistent policies to rebuild trust and foster a productive partnership.
Reality Check, Reverse Brain Drain, Tech Collaboration
Ting Zhang mentioned European and American countries having greater Chinese-speaking capabilities and openness to Chinese culture, citing a personal experience at a Chinese New Year reception in Belgium where many Europeans used WeChat and some were learning Chinese, and the more negative public perception of China in the UK, which she noted as in contrast to the generally positive view of the UK in China. Is this situation likely to change, particularly under the new Labour government?
The discussion moved on to the tangible benefits of UK-China business and educational partnerships. Brown highlighted the significant role of Chinese students in the UK’s education sector, both academically and financially, and the decline in Chinese studies within the UK, stressing the importance of fostering a deeper understanding of China’s language, culture, and advancements in fields like artificial intelligence and robotics. He advocated for a more robust educational partnership to strengthen this vital connection.
He pointed to the phenomenon of “reverse brain drain,” where talented individuals who studied or worked in the UK and US are returning to China, contributing to its innovation and research capabilities. He also highlighted the significant advancements in Chinese technology, from EVs to AI, and the need for the UK to recognise this shift, particularly in areas where China is leading and where opportunities for potential collaboration lie.
Brown expressed concern that the UK’s approach might be hindering its own access to talent and innovation by potentially turning away bright Chinese PhD applicants. He argued that the UK could be losing out on future research and development talent and the growth of its startup ecosystem.
Strategic Realignment, Evolving Perceptions,
Ting Zhang shared her view about the UK’s historical independence in its relationship with China and suggested a return to this approach, independent of US influence, to foster better ties. She highlighted the challenges UK businesses face due to US pressure against Chinese investment, leading to potential economic losses. She emphasised China’s rapid advancements in science and innovation, particularly in DeepTech, and suggested the UK should leverage its innovation by partnering with China for commercialisation, which could accelerate market access for UK startups.
Brown emphasised the shifting global landscape and the UK’s need to adopt a more independent and pragmatic approach to its relationship with China. He suggested that the UK should prioritise its economic prosperity, especially given the uncertainty surrounding traditional allies like the US. He argued that focusing on mutual economic benefit is crucial, emphasising that the UK needs a clear strategy to leverage its strengths and engage with China, a major global economic power.
He noted that the UK’s economic growth is currently stagnant, and productivity is low. In contrast, China’s rapid development, particularly in infrastructure and innovation, presents a stark contrast. He emphasised that if the UK prioritises prosperity, engaging with a significant economy like China, which constitutes a substantial portion of global GDP, is essential. While acknowledging the historical relationship, Brown stressed that the focus should be on practical outcomes that benefit the British people.
Pragmatism and Mutual Prosperity
The conversation addressed shifting public perceptions of China in the UK and the potential for a strategic realignment in bilateral relations. While acknowledging some negative views, Brown noted that these perceptions are often event-driven and not deeply rooted, suggesting that the UK should focus on rebuilding and normalising its relationship with China, particularly in light of the evolving geopolitical environment. He emphasised the importance of clarity and consistency in policies regarding Chinese investment in the UK.
Ting Zhang noted that despite existing challenges and negative perceptions, there’s a belief that the UK-China business relationship still holds immense potential driven by China’s vast consumer market and the opportunities it offers across various sectors.
Brown pointed at China’s rapid advancements in technology and infrastructure as opportunities for collaboration. Additionally, he stressed the importance of clear and consistent policies to rebuild trust and foster a productive partnership. He noted the pragmatic approach of the current UK government and emphasised the importance of focusing on mutual economic benefits, viewing China as a key partner in achieving the goal of prosperity for the British people and addressing global challenges like climate change.
Addressing the question of advice for both the UK and Chinese governments, Brown
For the Chinese government, the advice centred on facilitating better access for outsiders to the Chinese market and providing greater clarity on how to navigate its business and consumption landscape. While acknowledging improvements in China’s commercial legal system and reduced corruption, Brown noted that the market remains competitive and challenging. He suggested that China could further foster UK-China relations by providing clearer pathways for international businesses to succeed in its market and by ensuring a welcoming environment for visitors.
Both Ting Zhang and Kerry Brown believe that a stronger, positive UK-China business relationship could significantly contribute to overall prosperity.
In short, this episode of the podcast underscored the need for a strategic and pragmatic approach to UK-China relations, prioritising mutual prosperity and recognising the significant shifts in global power dynamics and technological advancements.
